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topknot3

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Reply with quote  #16 
I think that the testing needs to be hard.  You can't make it so than any simpleton can pass it.  ANYONE, I do mean ANYONE, who has a passion for animals would pass sit.  Those type who study, read and whose ears perk up at the sound of a whimper as they try to figure out what the dog is saying could pass it with some effort.

This is my "for instance".  I believe NOT EVERYONE has the ability to properly groom and handle cats.  52% of the population might LOVE cats.  Out of that 52, 10% might be called cat experts and out of that 10, not even 1% can addequately groom a cat.  They just don't get it, they don't have a feel for it, they can DO it, but they are not proficient at it.

I have see 1st hand, someone who loves cats and wants to be a cat groomer, not really have a clue.  AND I have also seen at shelters, WELL MEANING volunteers who say they are with the grooming dept, do a really lousy job.  It doesn't meet MY standards.  Thats not saying MY standards would meet the national standards...we need a bar set for us.  The National Cat Grooming Institute has set the bar for cat grooming.  Its interesting to watch it get off the ground and begin flying.  I have a whole new perspective on licensing and I didn't think I would.  I felt dog grooming was fine the way it was.  But I think that Colin is right, the time has come.  We have stricter rules for elder and infant care now BECAUSE someone set the bar.

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jonna

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Reply with quote  #17 

I love the idea of a doggy daycare situation. I am not putting down this environment in any way. I personally would be the salon owner who would have the accident. Just my luck. I can't take the added responsibility and I get alot of owners who, can you believe, lie on the phone. I actually get people who complain about free roaming dogs at other salons just as theses salons get complaints of crated animals. I am just a safety junkie. My salon is pretty much a one on one unless I get busy. I rarely have a mess in a crate since the pets are not at the shop long. There is no agreeing or disagreeing, just different points of views.I thought I would get a barrage of responses of the groomer/trainer thing.

SPCAGAL

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Rottiman

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Reply with quote  #19 
Spcagal its amazing how much are operations and thoughts are the same. We run a open day care type shop as well. That is the type of situation that makes the pick up and drop off service work so well. We pick them up when we are ready to work on them and we don't ever have to rush do to a client showing up before there dog is ready.

It is amazing the way the dogs reaction to seeing me changed when we went to the open floor shop. When they see me they perk up and greet me with happiness rather then cowarding and hiding. One big consideration that has to be dealt with is who is booked with who. You have to book by temperament,size and then difficulty of cut. We never book small dogs and big dogs together. We feel it is worth the extra work that it takes booking to have our clients enjoy the time they are here.

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cattitude

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Reply with quote  #20 

Don't always think you're gonna get blasted SpcaGal!!!, we also do the 'down off the table to shake and run around.' Dogs love that.  They are generally pretty social animals, and love new and exciting things.  I love the little furious wiggle they do before scampering off to chase their fur floating around on the ground.  They are less intimidated and seem to be more willing to run right back to you when called.  Instead of sitting in a cage then making a mad-dash as soon as their door is opened.  Our customers too seem almost disappointed when theres no one else to play with!  It's nice of you to check with your customers before doing so too! Also, I think certifiction is twice as important for self-taught groomers.  I think of my NCMG and CFMG certificates as my college dipomas! SInce I've been doing this since middleschool!  Whereas some groomers have grooming school certificates and think thats enough, I am constantly continuing my education by attending seminars, watching DVDs, going to shows and so on!.  My CFMG certificate shows tht I am efficient in safely and humanely wrangling and handling all types and temperaments of cats, whereas my NCMG certificate means I can do breed standard trims on a variety of purebred dogs.  I think it is very imortant for groomers to be physically tested on their handling and temperment assesment skills.  I have seen firsthand, people who claim to be cat groomers reach right toward a thrashing, swatting,hissing cats head to try to scruff it and instantly get bit.  Cat woman and I both know to let that sucker calm down, distract it then go for the scruff! And we rarely ever get bit.  She taught me the tips and tricks to deal with even the wildest of cats safely and effectively.  Cats who have always been sedated for grooming, can now come to us and never make more than a peep during grooming.  It is our knowledge of cat behavior and our handling skills that set us apart from other cat groomers, now there is a certification process and title to back up our credibility. Jonna, i personally think dog trainers (the normal ones, not the 'pssssst'ers), make awesome groomers and bath brushers!  My mom had one work for her and train to groom and she was the best worker ever.  We never had to worry about her working with a scared or aggressive dog.  She was gentle, calm and yes, assertive.  She handled them safely and lovingly, allthewhile being thorough and quick!  I don't think it is another can of worms, these are a rare breed and are talented and very much in-tune with the animals and the warning signs of their behavior.


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topknot3

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cattitude
dog trainers (the normal ones, not the 'pssssst'ers), make awesome groomers and bath brushers! 


I am NOT NOT NOT putting down Ceasar Milan's training methods, but doesn't it drive you bonkers when people with huge, wild, lunging dogs enter your shop and the owners keep repeating the Pssst sound.  They learned it from Ceasar but not everyone trains their dogs correctly his method.   To me, the look like Psssting idiots!  Sorry Candymaker, but I am stating facts.

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jonna

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Reply with quote  #22 
Was just wondering what you groomers do with unaltered pets? Do you let them roam aroung too? Been getting alot of unaltered dogs lately. I think people just can't afford the vet fee.
Don't watch alot of Ceasar. He gets on my nerves after a bit.

SPCAGAL

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Reply with quote  #23 
Well I am not getting in to the whole Cesar vs other training thing again - if you want to see both sides of that issue you can go to the thread, "Calming the Crazies" by JC Dog Hero.

Jonna, male unaltered pets do tend to "Mark" things (to put it nicely!). If they are doing so we must crate them.  As far as "interacting", shall we say, we always check who is out with who.  That WOULD be a nasty mistake now wouldn't it?!?!  OOPS, your Yorkie MAY be impregnated by that Peke/Shih/Chi ?X.  No, we can't take any chances on that.  Actually, come to think of it, I'd say maybe only 1/10 of our current clients have unaltered dogs.   That may seem high to city groomers, but we are in a rural area so that's not too bad.

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JC_DogHero

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Reply with quote  #24 
Hehe, topknot3, I originally read your post as "p*ss*ng idiots!" I shouldn't read when I'm tired

As far as licensing goes, I have no problem with it at all. A new shop opened in town, but they won't even let you in unless you're just dropping your dog off. Any place where you can't see what's going on inside troubles me to no end.

On the topic of spay/neuters, does anyone else's local shelters have low-cost programs for pet owners? This is something that can easily be advocated.

This is an interesting thread to follow, as a friend of mine has been toying with the idea of opening a daycare like this.


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jonna

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Reply with quote  #25 

I am sure there are programs thru the local SPCAs but it is still costly for many folk. I am only really hooked up with the low cost spay/nueter for the kitties. I am also rural. Was also thinking of going commercial. But I could only do this if I change my hours at my full time job. That means going back to graveyard shift. What do you all think? I think I am losing my mind...

SPCAGAL

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Reply with quote  #26 

Jonna, what is your full-time job?  Does it pay well?  I guess the best way to know if it would be viable is, how busy are you with grooming?  Are you booked up in advance?  With a bit of advertising, COULD you be?  I bet you could as you sound like a great groomer and smart lady.  Unfortunately the economy has to be considered, as does competition, location, etc.  If your hearts true desire is to go commercial - then you can do it! 


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jonna

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Reply with quote  #27 
I have been back and forth with this for years...
I have had a significant drop in business this year due to my Township (can't really advertise, long story) and more groomers in my area. I am in the Yellowbook. My other job just pays ok but I have alot of benefits. I have been there 25 years and I am not gonna throw that away. If my farm subdivisions were all settled, my new house was built, my bills and mortgage drastically shrunk; I would take the plunge. I need more visibility. The timing is just not right. I don't think I could do 2 full time jobs. I have done it before but I get kinda punchy. Most of last year I worked 60 hours a week at my full time and 15 to 20 a week in my shop. It does drain you. Time will point me in the right direction I guess.

jonna

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Reply with quote  #28 

Oh, I am in medical manufacturing.

Epona

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Reply with quote  #29 
Oh my... what a differing lot of ideas on this line. I know for me (back in the day) we had to PROVE we knew basic breed patterns... not just read it and test on it, but do a dog with it. I also know that if anyone is going to create this 'exam' we will have a complete breakdown of voices. So many have their 'own' way of terming things, who is to say which shampoos are better, who is to say how you hold your scissors, certain 'so called tools' etc etc etc. How about the people who never... yes NEVER learned how to stand dry a dog, how about what I was taught... (yea yea... old lady here taught by old ladies back then) what if your electricity goes out... could you hand scissor a #10 strip???

There are so many factors I my greatest fear is that some politician or goof ball who has N E V E R worked in this field is going to tell me how I have to work. Just because some idiot walked away from their table with a dog on it, the dog either slips or jumps.. gets hung... now some person is going to try to tell me I should NEVER use a grooming noose????

I have been very in favor of licensing.. BIG TIME, but who is going to create the 'standards' and how can it be monitored... would we have to have all reports of any pet injured going to a Vet and then an investigation to follow? Ive had the terrible experience of having clients, new clients come in... not tell me their pet has severe medical issues, although I take extreme care, the dog goes home sore OR even worse.. who is to say an owner abuses their pet just to go and sue you? I had one client come in with a  rough collie, was told by clients he had arthritis, we took extreme care with him, next day wife calls me saying she is going to sue me. I call Vet, they say the dog had a condition where it was not in any way my fault but I went through mental stuff you cannot believe. I felt terrible that I may have done anything wrong even though I didnt do anything wrong at all... the ramifications are tremendous.

Yes we need it, but it is not an easy task by any means. Even Beauticians require a state license.. but I know I have had bad perms and my hair fell out, Ive heard of many friends who have had very bad experiences too.


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SPCAGAL

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Reply with quote  #30 
Oh no, Epona!  I would absolutely FREAK if someone said they were going to sue me, whether justified or not!!!  I hear you!
 
I support licensing 100%.  However, I understand your concerns.  I believe this licensing program should be developed by GROOMERS, not by politicians or anyone who doesn't have significant experience in the industry.  I also think there should be some form of apprenticeship or some-such so that a groomer can PROVE they know how to safely and properly groom, not just SAY they can. 
 
I don't believe licensing should include such things as what shampoo or other products to use - that is entirely a personal decision.  But yes, it should include stand drying a dog, dematting, ear plucking and cleaning, anal glands, sanitary clips, proper handling of dogs, both on the table and in the tub; HVing; basic first aid; basic dog psychology basics of dog handling; breed identification/basic traits etc; nail clipping and filing; identifying health concerns/basic dog health care/when to refer to vet; sanitation and health standards; basic equipment care and cleaning; and don't forget the whole business/customer relations skills thing.  This is important too.  Everything from billing to making change to greeting customers and their pets.  Treating customers with respect and honesty, discussing style/cut desired, using release forms, providing customers with information, teaching basic animal care to clients (brushing, ear cleaning, etc)
 
OK I'm sure I am forgetting things, I know you will all correct me and that is good.  If we can get together as an industry and produce this licensing thing ourselves, it would be far better than waiting for some other agency to do it FOR US.
 
Oh, I don't know if specific breed cuts should be included or be a separate part, what do you all think? 
And should this be an annual dues thing, like a union, or ????  Should there be inspections of facilities, and who would do this???  How can we universally accomplish this, so standards are kept equally high anywhere you go??????

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