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valleygroomer

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Reply with quote  #31 

OMG, I feel like I am so addicted to this board.  I can't believe I love every topic... Bah haha  So sorry...  But listen, that is so funny you should say that because my husband said the same thing.   But, I reminded him of the time that there was a discussion going on, and the both of them were on at the same time...  Can an IP address (your computer's identity), have more than one user?  I don't think so.  But, I don't know - so bizarre!

 

But getting back to Licensing, the school I went to and was Cert. at back in '90 was all taught by CMG's - all graduates from this school.  Boy, what a list of instructors.  I was very privileged to have this gentleman oh god what was his name...  Luke?  Maybe Lu  I don't know - "ruff" day! ha ha, K, anyway this guy had groomed since the school opened back in the early 60' I think...  I could pull one of the few All Breed Dog Grooming Guide, and get the info.  But, this school is and has been certifying groomers since then.  I used to have Sam and his wife Catherine come into the class and give us (me) private little tips, whether it was the angle whatever...  The passion was so alive and there!  We did on the average I think it was 70  dogs a day.  I talked about this before I think somewhere, on this board.   But, I don't want to push anything, but when I finished the out of state program (brutal 8 am - 11 pm - usually), 6 days/wk 7 wks. 

 

But there was another instructor who was the bomb, I  mean she was amazing...  So knowledgeable.

 

And there were so many talented and skilled instructors...  That school was an absolutely professional environment.  They taught us bows, took us on a tour through the hot grooming boutiques in Manhattan, I mean it was an awesome experience.

 

When I started grooming, or rather before I was a groomer, I was a full time Vet tech for a few years.  The groomer at the vet hops I worked for was moving to a diff. province, and I asked her if I could replace her, as my prep area was right outside of her F****** cubby that she used to groom in, and always knew I wanted to be a groomer/handler/breeder someday.  So, this lady watched me work with the animals in the back of the Vet, and she watched me go through the entire day...  We just kinda chatted ..  anyway you get the point...  SO she said yes!  You can have my clients, but you "MUST" go to the NYSDG.  I didn't know where she was stalking about, but I went and got a loan, and took the course, and was offered a job there at the school when I completed my course.  I declined...  What if...  ha ha yadda yadda. 

 

I want a finishing school for me... I am a CMG and I want more...  Seminars!!!  I need seminars..  Many..  I just wish that there were critiquing seminars.  You know what I mean?  I'm not done learning.  You might think I 'm full of it, but I'm serious   I phoned Sam himself, and said Sam you need a Part 2 to your grooming school, you need a finishing school.  He said no I don't you do...  hahaa  Sigh, and I do...  After grooming all these years, I need/want/expect more from myself.  Our organizations are really bridging the gap here - seminars, testing by NCMG's, and allowing these seminars to be available for us to take, and their prices are reasonable, and little certificates have them plaque mounted and post on the wall... As we know the public/clients notice them, and it does make all the difference in the world to the public.  But I really think that it is not as difficult as we may think.  If everyone has the right purpose, and intent then it can only embrace those experienced groomers and certify them.  I don't think this is really the problem at all, instead, I think the issue I hear is more so directed toward the reasoning behind paying a private organization to Cert them when they are doing just fine in their own worlds...  And it is a small price to pay (cost of testing - there have been a few suggested on this board) to ensure that this beautiful occupation, is regulated and organized like pretty much every other occupation.  Not to put someone out of business.  No to say it has to be done next year, as long as we start to work toward that...  But' let's just say if you are fresh out of school...   No deja vu - I totally said all this before - Later



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keystonepets

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Reply with quote  #32 
I agree, with gruluvr who would qualify to be grandfathered in? and where do you draw the line? I am a "newbie" if you will. I have been officially grooming 16 months. I have owned my own business for 7 months. I am probably the most expensive groomer in my area. I also own a homebased business that is very clean and professional, and no my daddy didn't buy it for me. that just starting out is doing great. The reason I am getting alot of the business in this area is besides the fact that I am GOOD ... the 20 year veterens in my area SUCK they are HACKS as you call it. They can't even put a correct pattern on a schnauzer ( I can send you some before pictures), or send one home clean! I get clients daily from other shops. Ear hair not plucked, toenails not even touched, patterns either set wrong or totally lopsided, anal gland so full they feel like they are going to bust,another favorite they are always giving baboon butts (shaving the entire rear end, with a maternity clip to boot) to all their dogs. (The only decent one in the area just retired, and has started referring her clients to me, and she was a school trained I worked for one of the area groomers for about 2 weeks. Do you know what I was told by him slap them under the chin not on top of the head or you will make them head shy!!!! Now I know why my dog was asked not to come back to his shop. ( I became a groomer because no one in my area could groom my dog) I watched him hold a dog in HIS lap and pound it with his fists, because he couldn't control it.And guess what I am an on the job trained groomer. I wanted to go to a grooming school.  Only to find out upon talking with the MAN/Owner of the school that he sedated animals! (Not a licensed Vet)I called about 30 grooming shops in the yellow pages and asked them if I were to graduate from that school, would they be interested in hiring me. Every one of them said NO! They all suggested that I find someone to learn from, & that the MAN running the school was a joke! Guess what about a month later his school closed. There's not another one even close to here. I am not picking on you for what you are trying to accomplish, but only for how you are trying to do it. I do agree there is a need to regulate the industry. But where do you start?I know people in the cosmotology industry (that is regulated), and have owned shops for years and only been visited once in 10 years by a state inspector. & I have received some really fine haircuts for $20.00 and some crappy ones for $60.00. I just don't think it is going to solve everything.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">I maybe new but I would be willing to go up against anyone in my local area. I would beat them hands down. I'm not saying I know everything because I don't. But my clients and their pets get treated with respect and love. I don't strike my animals, I don't use heat in cages, I use eye protectant in the bath, I obtain vet/vaccination information. Would you like to question me on other modalities? I will be happy to email you some before and after photos so you can critique my work.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">Just because you are a newbie and not master certified doesnt mean that the animal will be mistreated or receive a bad haircut. And just because you are master certified and have 20 years experience doesn't mean you are competant or kind.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px">
valleygroomer

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Reply with quote  #33 

So, to wrap it up...  We can all benefit from Licensing.  But, instead of leaving this up to the gov.  I think we should follow the advice of Sandypaws, form a platform for the industry amungst ourselves that we can present to the gov on the standards for our industry, although I believe the organizations out there are heading in the right track.

 

We do have a hot industry, and many want to be overnight groomers, but the fact of the matter is that, as old as what grooming is, the knowledge and experience can really only be gained through many grueling nights/days/nights/weekends doing the wrong hair du, using the wrong blade size, trimming the nails too short... Doing a shave off when it was supposed to be a brush out, you know stuff happens...  All of this will happen, and hopefully the lessons learned will be recognized as just that - Lessons. 

 

I don't think you must to go to school to be a groomer.  I only conclude for the newbie, it is a great solid foundation to start your career from.  Maybe sometimes doors get closed too quickly, where we should have left them open...  Maybe we could learn something...  It's all about learning.

 

The ole dog folks I know really were/are quite short with their patience, and never take on an apprentice until they observe this person in the dog industry for a Long time and find them worthy to pass on their lessons (life/industry).  It is here where the real details of grooming are gained.  Nut, these folks are few and far between, and most of us know it all...  So what is the sense of teaching them of attempting to show them anything...  They already know it all.

 Well, when I am around these folks, I don't even open my mouth unless I am asked a question (when being shown something, or listening to another point of view).  It is through this that we learn (let's say how to dye - ha hah aaa haa, or hand strip).

 

If we are actively participating in this industry, we need to have all doors open, and keep our ears and notebooks handy...  Taking notes will make good sense when these knowledgeable folks move on or are no longer alive or available, and take with them there years of experience.  So little is written about our industry, unless you go look up dogs at the library or on line, and loe and behold...  There is a wealth of info waiting to be found - awesome info, old info - It doesn't change - It is a "Standard" one must finally accomplish that makes the standard what it is.

 

We all have choices...  I remind myself of this at least 50 times a day...  Every day in every way - everything is a choice.  I choose to dig deeper and find more info on the grooming subject that has sparked my digging.  None of this information is readily available, but it does exist...  You simply need to be active in the industry, and prove yourself to "you".  Once you focus on learning, it will happen...  The grandfathers of the show ring or the grooming industry are a fine example of this.  It doesn't matter what breed you fancy, it is how you represent your choice of breeds.  The breeders within that breed will decide if you are worthy of handing over their trade secrets.  They know this info is not readily available, and really do a fine job filtering out the committed dog fancier or the one's who need be committed (ha ha).

 

I know of some old groomers that I wish through this licensing procedure, I could yank them out of commission... I am talking about that ole groomer down the road who's shop hums of urine, dog abuse reported to you by the new client, you know the one who never baths the dog, or can even do a shave off properly - and these folks have been grooming for years - You get the dog, and it does take at least  4 or 5 grooms before I can get that dog to trust me, after his previous experience at the old groomers down the road..  And even though they are known for being the butchers, some of their clients wouldn't go anywhere else...  Others want to shut them down for animal abuse...  Opposite ends of the spectrum...

 

As hard as it seems to get into this industry and be respected, over time and constant learning - tremendous learning curve, and decisions made by you as a professional in the industry, how you conduct your business, I guess basically your "code of ethics" will prove you worthy, and if you have selected a breed to show - well, this really gets political but it is where all the "finishing" teaching and learning goes on...  We simply need be focused enough to select our breed, groom it and go to the shows - It is not mandatory, but if you really want to be a dog fancier, that this is what it takes.  It is once you get there, with your groomed dog, your personality, attitude, current knowledge base...  A lot of stuff that determines if that top breeder in your breed will take the time to show you the real jewels of their/our/your/my ha ha, trade... 

 

I know for a fact, the comments/postings I have read is exactly why they do not attempt to educate the "public" on our industry, and they keep their closest secrets/tricks of the breed/trade for a whipper snapper like myself...  I am not claiming to be a great groomer (my clients over the years seem to think so), but I absorbs everything I hear/see, I filter through the rubbish and take the knowledge and practice...  But these experienced one's are not only testing on testing day, they are observing every moment, and then conclude who is worthy.

 

Please don't take me wrong, but we have to be the sort of individual who absorbs these lessons, write them down as to never forget their tips...  And toughen up our outer skin, because their critiquing is raw and rough, and for the first few years, you will be off with patterns, or techniques - It's the learning curve...  This does not mean we close the doors on learning our craft, or perhaps it does for some, but for folks like myself...  I go home, dry my tears from the day (pain in finger from learning how to hold scissors, or hearing for the first time that I did the whole thing wrong, and that I don't even know how to hold a clipper...  You know, real critique without the frosting, I mean get out the pain medication, we do have a very disciplined industry, and most can't handle it...  We obviously can...  That's why we're here.  If they were here, they would read and probably conclude - This board is a waste of their time...  And they are not prepared to convince anyone of anything...  They know their industry, and us newbies (and I have been grooming for so long - and I'm still a newbie), newbies don't listen anyway so they don't bother to hand over this info...  We as newbies need to practice the "seen but not heard" concept, and watch how much is learned, how much is gained, mow much is said...  Get your note book out...

Cheers!



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sandypaws

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Reply with quote  #34 

hi,, in 1973 i was  2 years old.........wow,, so much info.. i have  to add one more thing.. i dont think ANYBODY should be grandfathered in. i think we ALL need to be tested .... i base this opinion on, here where i live there is a lady that has been grooming longer than i have been ALIVE!!!  but that does NOT prove she knows how to groom!!!  i have seen some really BAD grooming come out of her shop...  on poodles she gives them all "piano"legs  and "palm tree" tails and short little "baseball cap" top knots....  terriers WOW she comes up with patterns i have never seen before in my life!!!!! one of my newest clients showed me her mini schn.  it looked like she shaved it back with a #40 backwards!!!! the eyebrows were WRONG!!  she did not leave a beard she gave it a poodle type mustache  ECT ECT....   like i said, just because somebody has been grooming for a million years does not PROVE anything..


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valleygroomer

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Reply with quote  #35 

Me and my coffee.  I have coffee in my hand so often, I didn't even notice that I had it in my hand when I looked at the pic, before I posted it.  Isn't that funny..  And after I have been telling you all about how much coffee I drink.  Ha ha, I really need to work on this!

 

That Giant is my 3 yrs old girl, Sable.  What a beautiful dog...  She is my guardian.


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sandypaws

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Reply with quote  #36 

yes you are right.... i see your point.... but the reason most people take their dogs to her is because she is the cheepest $$$ .. here in a retirement area most people are on fixed incomes.. she only charges about 22-25 for a small dog where as i and 2 other shops charge 27-30...... i hear it all of the time,, person calls for a quote and they say " wow $30 but "she" only grooms my dog for 24, i cant afford to change"  ....and i cant afford to give ALL of these people discounts..   but i do see your point,, and i dont give very many show type cuts but i take what i have learn and apply it to the pet grooms....


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enchantedsaluki

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Reply with quote  #37 

Hello all! I am interested in the subject of licensing as seperate from certification (I am interested in discussing both, but as seperate entities.

 

Negligence by a particular grooming shop in my area (DC) has caused an uproar in Animal Control/Disease and Animal Health Control. They are now pushing for licensing. I am to have a meeting with the director of these organizations in the upcoming week to give some of my recommendations as to what should be required for a grooming salon to be licensed (ie, having had training in CPR; certain caging standards; certain questions and questions asked of the clients about their pets, and the like). I would greatly appreciate any ideas from those of you pushing licensing. I think it is very important, as there are a lot of shady grooming businesses with questionable things happening. For goodness sake, I once worked in a place (for about a day) where the animals in the drying room were kept in these scary mesh cages (same gauge wire spacing as rabbit hutch caging, if that means anything), with hot blow dryers blowing unmonitored pets. I bore witness to a Golden Retriever whose "groomer" had "gone to lunch" had left the pet unattended under a hot dryer. He was severely overheated. (So dryer with mandatory timers could be a suggestion; in DC it is not yet required to have timers on the dryers).  And so on.

 

As far as certification-- I think it is a good idea and important. What I would like to see is for it to be logistically easier to go through the process-- ie more testing areas and more frequent testing. Maybe appointments could be made with NDGA testers to come to a shop or even a rented space, if a certain number of people were interested in testing that day. I, for example, have been grooming for many, many years, but don't drive (I am a chicken for driving), which makes it a little difficult to get to these events (also makes getting to dog shows a little difficult; try getting a taxi to take a big hound dog).

 

Anyway, any feedback on these two issues would be great.

 

Best to all,

Cassandra/DC

valleygroomer

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Reply with quote  #38 

Cassandra, this is exactly who we need on our side in DC...  Be there soon!  Any way to put that meeting off for a few weeks!


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cposh

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Reply with quote  #39 
Government stay out of the way. 
luvgoldens

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Reply with quote  #40 

I was just wondering if any groomers in Pa have heard about the House Bill no. 2194 that is trying to license groomers in a completely absurd way.

valleygroomer

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Reply with quote  #41 

I thought it was a great way to hammer down what we all need to present to our state reps.  But I guess I can't even participate (I'm not a resident of the States - Although I do have a work permit - Go figure...), at least that is how that bill reads, I'm not allowed to sit on the board, even though I have been a CMG for 15 years - Oh well, I wasn't planning on living in that State any time soon anyway...  But these (and a few more points) are the glitches I saw when I read the entire bill.  And the way I read this, it will come into affect as of Jan 2'06 - They are done negotiating, and it is being put into affect...

 

Wow!


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valleygroomer

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Reply with quote  #42 

Hi D,  Well as it states as it closes at the end of the document, it shall be a law within 60 days was what led me astray...  Now, being led astray, we must be careful of this - as I clear my throat!  I don't think we need to worry about this hitting legislature, just that they have the correct provisions for our industry, and who better to give them that information but us, the groomers.  We can sit and read that huge bill, and maybe understand it or get frustrated with the words and say "oh well, I'll read that later", but it is because of those reactions, that legislature does not know what they need to detail our industry.  After all, they are ONLY pet owners...  And we all know what our clients are like - They know very little, unless they have something happen to them or an animal close to them.  They  don't know our industry.

 

I think we should embrace this transition (for the sake of the pet), and assist the seasoned groomers be grandfathered in, but ensuring that they know their stuff, yadda yadda, but we know what we need, and want, more than the gov.  So, we need to get over why they are introducing this bill, we simply need to ensure that the bill is written correctly, and covers everything we need to ensure we are happy with the fed representation of our industry, protecting the industry, the groomer, and the pet - They are trying to preserve and protect our industry, but don't know our industry, we need to inform them of what needs to be covered, and how to cover it...


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Reply with quote  #43 

Val

 

Your reply was to fast so I doubt you had time to read the link I posted that would help you understand that this bill is dead as it stands now! It will never make it so it is just jerking us around.

valleygroomer

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Reply with quote  #44 

And, so following the link up above...  Who gave "birth" to the bill?  What group was it, and more importantly what will we send as a rebuttle to their bill?  It IS up to us - The current groomers of America(s) <- Tee Hee!  lol

PS I think I'm heading Stateside permanently this weekend!!!


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luvgoldens

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Reply with quote  #45 

Hi D and Val, I am the one who put the original question out there about this bill and I thank you both immensely for your feedback. I actually heard that a State Reps dog died as a result of a groomer using a "sling" to groom the dog. This O'Neill has it out for groomers obviously. The really disturbing news is that the "special interest" group or person responsible is someone very well known to all of us and yes, a former groomer. He/She is really proud of this bill and will benefit greatly. I am nervous about passing the name along in case of backlash, but it is very unbelievable.

I also think the bill is too conflicting to pass this way, so what are they trying to achieve? Should we all write letters to the State and Local Reps? I hate to "wait this out" and have it bite us.

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