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Rubysmom

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Reply with quote  #76 

Lets see Biz! where do we get our "crazy" ideas? Here they are: The amount of $103,000.00 goes something this!

  The bill requires 600 hrs. of training for a master teacher/groomer, 300 hrs. for a basic groomer, and 80 hrs. for a bather.  Let’s break that down financially:  The typical shop in Lancaster Co. has an owner, two subcontractors and a bather.  I am going to use that as a template for this scenario:

600 hrs. at 6 hrs. schooling/day = 5 months, avg. cost $7662

300 hrs. at 6 hrs. schooling/day = 2.5 months, avg. cost $5097

300 hrs. at 6 hrs. schooling/day = 2.5 months, avg. cost $5097

80 hrs. at 6 hrs. schooling/day = 2 weeks, avg. cost $1650

For the shop owner, two subs and a bather, tuition cost total = $19,506

 

Then you have to stay somewhere.  Accommodation at a conservative estimate of $50/day is $7,000 for the master, $3,500 for each sub and $700 for the bather.  That’s $14,700.

Food cost at a conservative estimate of $25/day = $6850 for all four people.

 

          In the meantime, who is looking after your house?  Your children? 

Your pets?  Do you want to be away from them for 5 months?  Now, that’s just the schooling.  Your business has now been closed for five months while you’re away getting that education.  What are you supposed to do for income?  In the meantime, you still have

Ÿ        Mortgage (both home and shop)

Ÿ        Bills (both home and shop)

Ÿ        Childcare

Ÿ        Kenneling costs

All of these costs are still coming in.  How will you cover them?  I’ll tell you how.  Before you leave for school, to pay for the time you are away from your business, you will have to groom 1200 additional hours (that’s 1200 dogs) to make up for your lost revenue.  I will break it down this way, and please remember these prices are an average price for the state of PA:

600 hours of grooming at $40/dog = $24,000

300 hours of grooming at $40/dog = $12,000

300 hours of grooming at $40/dog = $12,000

                      TOTAL                        $48,000

That’s a $48,000 DEFICIT while you are away at school.   In groomer’s terms, that’s 1200 here think they can find another 1200 customers over the next few months, and more importantly, have the time to groom them?

here think they can find another 1200 customers over the next few months, and more importantly, have the time to groom them?

          So, let me recap your financial loss:  school

                                                                  Lost revenue

                                                                  Shop (rent only $1,000/mo.)

                                                       TOTAL        $103,856

 

          Now, are you going to have customers when you come back?  After all, you have just shut your doors for five months, and now your workers all

have to leave while THEY get trained.  Again, in excess of $103,000.  Plus your business will probably fold.  Is anyone willing to take that risk? So Biz there ya go! now maybe you don't have that much money to lose ,maybe your are a 1 person show....however you will lose $$$$$! Now this grandfathering thing read it again please pg 20. of bill2194. Exmpetion from licensure examination for existing pet groomers-- A license shall be issued without examination to the applicant who meets the following:

1 been in practice of grooming for not less than 5 years 

2 obtained a cert from an ACCREDITED SCHOOL, organization or associtation..or have proof that you were under an aprenticeship for at least 300 hours under a certified teacher. Hello if the pet grooming business didn't need all this cert. licesning, stuff before and we dont have it and been grooming for years w/o it Where do we get the Cert at???? Ummmmm............ SCHOOL yes school for 300 to 600 hours depending on your grooming  level. So really there is NO stipulation for GRANDFATHERING. On the penalties issues here is that breakdown 

.  Grading of the conviction offenses goes like this:

Ÿ        1st offense: “summary offense” is a criminal penalty term carrying up to 3 months’ jail time, or $300 fine,  or BOTH;

Ÿ        2nd offense: “3rd degree misdemeanor”  is also a criminal penalty term carrying a 1 - 2 yr. jail sentence and $2,000-$5,000 fine, OR BOTH;

Ÿ        The owner of the grooming facility gets a $500 fine plus 6 months’ jail time for employing that individual.

Ÿ        The Board of Groomers can “level a civil penalty” (that means they can sue you) for up to $1,000.  (That’s in addition to your other fines.)

I think luckydog103 took care of the rest of your comments. Biz have you been to one of these groomers meetings?? If not maybe you should come to one and see and hear for yourself. There is one coming up again soon for the Allentown/ Reading area.  These figures are not getting pulled out of the air these good people are hitting thier Reps. and others and going much further than sitting there with  the bill in front of them, to gather the best knowledge they can.

 

luckydog103

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Reply with quote  #77 

Biz, it is people like you that will hurt the dog and cat groomers of Pennsylvania.  You defend this bill like you have written it, curious I would say!  I am taking this issue to the public, television and newspapers, there are No complaints about us groomers from the public. This is all about money, major monies paid to the state, which will only hurt us business owners of Pennsylvania.  We don't need this license, and the public and vets are not calling for it. In fact, the vets in my area have all written letters to our local reps in support of us groomers. They know we keep the pets clean, healthy and parasite free.  YOUR stupid bill would eliminate us. You are not for the best interest of the Pennsylvania dog and cat owners, I have given my life to serve my clients, have never needed a fund, a notice on the wall with the board telephone numbers on it, or any Big Brother looking over my shoulder. And, after 34 years, I don't need to go to school to learn to groom, Please, groomers, out there, speak up, it is now or never. This is a plague on our industry.

luckydog103

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Reply with quote  #78 

Groomers of Pennsylvania, write and call your representatives, this is your chance to save your business. Hon. Thomas Caltagirone,  645 Penn ST. 2nd Floor , Reading, Pa    Hon John Payne  250 W Chococlate Ave, Hershey, PA 17033  Hon Douglas Reichley 1245 Chestnut St Unit 5, Emmaus, PA 18049  Hon Elinor Taylor 13 W Miner St. Weat Chester, PA 19380  Hon Katherine Watson 1410 W St. Road, Warminster, Pa 18974  Hon Rosita Youngblood 5736 Greene St Philadelphia PA 18974 Hon Bernard O'Neill 210 W St Road, Warminster, PA 18974              More names to follow, if you don't act now YOU WON'T HAVE A GROOMING BUSINESS IN PENNSYLVANIA

luckydog103

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Reply with quote  #79 

Thank you for the links, however I have had all of the names of the reps and senators since this bill was written . And I have sent letters to my local reps, tomorrow I will give my senator a call.  I know every word of this bill, I have been to the Lancaster meeting and the Langhorne meeting, where many people have discussed and gone over this bill, and taught us groomers what is in the bill.  About the "grandfather clause ". The bill says word for word The applicant must have: (i) been in the practice of pet grooming for not less than five years; (ii)obtained a certificate from an accredited school, organization or association; or (iii)been an apprentice at least 300 hours under a certified pet groomer or teacher as provided in this act.  Now, it is this last line that is hangs us experienced groomers, 300 hours under a certified pet groomer or teacher.  Well, 300 hours under a certified groomer or teacher, is going to school, so there is no exemption in this bill as it is now written.  It DEFINITELY does not state we will be given a license because we have been in business 5 years or longer, that is what it should say.   I would love to relax and have fun, but this bill cannot pass as written.

luckydog103

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Reply with quote  #80 

I do understand the meaning of the word or. However, none of those options are good because they all involve schooling, been in practice of pet grooming  for not less than five years' (ii)obtained a certificate from an accredited school, organization or association; or (iii)been an apprentice at least 300 hours under a certified pet groomer or teacher as provided in this act.   This bill clearly does not "grandfather" us in without schooling.  This is a fact, word for word from the bill, I guess you get a kick out of calling us groomers stupid. 

luckydog103

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Reply with quote  #81 

WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!



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Reply with quote  #82 

luckydog, I'm with Biz on this one,and many other points he or she made. There is alot of "spin" from both sides on this issue and Biz is just trying to find the truth within all of it. I'm NOT putting down Gaye's work. I think her dedication to this bill and the work that she has put into it is admirable to say the least. I'm thankful that she was at the meeting in West Newton I attended. But some things about this bill are being exagerated and making groomers fearful about losses is not needed to get us on board about this bill. I was really put off by the Sample letter which advised us to say that "It may be your dog who will be slung around and cut up by unskilled laborers who will fill the void." Which client are you going to give your one appointment left before Christmas, the one who treats you with respect or the one who threatens you? And I don't believe it's being done in the interest of the corps. They are the ones who will be damaged the most if this bill passes. I know they certify their own people but nowhere in the bill does it say that their certification will be honored. (Flame deterrant suit on) I've written my letters, I've called all the offices and I did it respectfully, without threatening overtones. We need to be Leaders, not LEMURS.

luckydog103

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Reply with quote  #83 

Lemurs, or sheep led to slaughter?

5pugs

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Reply with quote  #84 

I agree that licensing will not stop a groomer from being crappy. I do think, however, that it may give us in this industry more respect from the public. I think the main problems are from schools who graduate EVERYONE so they can move in more students to generate money. I don't think the standards are strict enough. I have hired many groomers fresh out of school and groomers who have been grooming for 10 years and sometime there is no difference. It all has to do with how much you value your own work. If one shop will charge $40 to strip a shitzu and another shop charges $42 to "handscissor" where do you think a crap groomer will work. Obviously where he or she can make $20 doing a strip. To actually handsissor a shitzu with an 2in of coat takes great art..either you are an artist or your not. Anyone can take art lessons but it doesn't meant they are Picasso. I don't think that licensing will change that. I think that shops have to decide whether they are the kind that produce "art" most can't. Not even competition groomers will do that in the shop. If groomers want to make more money they need to produce results. Even being trained by a competition groomer means nothing. I have a groomer in my salon now that was trained by Lisa Leady. Lisa gave her 98% -100% on all of her test dogs upon graduation. This groomer has worked for me for over a year still can't control her scissors, constantly chops into coats with her wobbly hands and is very ruff on dogs. I have another groomer who has been with me for over two years been grooming for about 5 an is EXCELLENT!!! Clients lover her...why?? because she cares. You can't teach that. I think that licensing is an excellent idea to benifit the shops themselves and make the clients feel secure that their dog is being treated correctly..as long as the clients understands that dogs do get cut occaisionaly and have to be restrained humanely. As everyone knows clents hear you plucking ear hair and think you are abusing their dog. Consumers need to know the ins and outs of the grooming procedure to feel safe. If stores charged more for their services and didn't give new groomers 50% commission right away the crappy ones wouldn't last very long. The problem is crap groomers move from salon to salon getting 50% all the while toxifing your store and the industry. We need to stop giving 50%!!! That's what groomers expect!! and if you don't give it to them someone else will. I think the store owners are alot of the problem we have these problems. Most groomers that work for you DON'T CARE!!! Start charging more and paying less commission until proven otherwise. You will end up with good clients and excellent employees.

The groomers who care, whether "certified" or not are the reason we are in this business. A license is not going to change that unless shops enforce stricter rules on their work and who they hire.


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Amy Radez


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Reply with quote  #85 

Here is one for the "shepherd". Did you know that you DON'T need to be licensed to be a veterinary ASSISTANT in Pa? Did you know that you DO need to be licensed to be a veterinary TECHNICIAN in the state of PA? They can do most of the same things but the Assistants work must always be done in the presence or under direct supervision of the veterinarian. I was talking to another groomer about this and she was put off that veterinary assistants who give injections, draw blood, dispense medicines, assist in surgery, (many things that are much more invasive that what we do) ect... do not need to be licensed and we may. However, it all must be done in the direct supervison of a licensed individual (Vet). Shouldn't vets then be  required by law to have a veterinary TECHNICIAN on staff at all times just as this law would require a Master groomer on staff at all times? Just some food for thought.

luckydog103

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Reply with quote  #86 

Yes, it is a shame that no matter how long we have been in business we must go back to school to learn to groom, at 60 years old, I find this very shameful, I have taught grooming over the years, have owned six grooming salons and two pet shops and now to operate in Pennsylvania, if this bill passes, I will have to go back to school, very shameful indeed!  And Biz, don't give me any lies about being "grandfathered in", it clearly states in the bill I will need 300 hours under a "master groomer" to get a license. And, it is very shameful that our industry will have to post telephone numbers of the board, so that our clients can call them in case of a complaint.  I will indeed, be ashamed to have a business without integrity.   And, no booths, I have enjoyed, over the years, having a little booth at our town's sidewalk sale, now according to this bill, we will not be allowed to have a booth, yes, very shameful profession we are in, funny 34 years of grooming the dogs and cats in Pennsylvania, I have never felt ashamed of my profession, in fact, I was proud. No more, now I am ashamed, thanks, Bernie O'Neil for opening my eyes.

luckydog103

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Reply with quote  #87 

I agree 5pugs, grooming schools do not make groomers, so why are all of us groomers now required to go to school?  Could it be for the financial rewards of the schools?  Makes one think!

5pugs

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Reply with quote  #88 

I'm not disagreeing that groomers should not have some sort of schooling or certificate from a "master groomer" or school. I actually think it is a good idea. I, however, think that the grades should be a little stricter then they are. I think that the public may give groomers more respect knowing that they have to go to school.As for licensing shops through the government, I this may cause problems if the state does not understand what is norm or not for groomers to function. Not to mention raising prices for our clients which may not be a bad idea. It really frustrates me when you have a client who is so nit pickey and worried about their dogs concern but complain about a $2.00 price increase. I don't feel that you can put a price on the care of an animal....maybe if groomers are required to get licenses then clients would pay more. If groomers are worried about having to be licensed it makes me wonder why?? It is very annoying to know that the main issue recently for this whole license thing is because of the golden retriever thing. Groomers can't be blamed for eveything!! Maybe it was because of negligence maybe it wasn't. Even if the groomer was licensed and this happened to the dog..then what? what does the owner have to fall back on then. There are so many good and bad points to this license. It may cause problems to already established shops but help future shops. Do I think it will help clients not complaining or being worried about their dog..or from a dog dying in a dryer cage...I doubt it. If this bill passes ever in the state of Illinois I don't know if I would be happy or not...I have so many mixed feelings about this. 


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Amy Radez
luckydog103

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Reply with quote  #89 

Thanks BIZ, I always look forward hearing from you, a good laugh is always nice.

luckydog103

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Reply with quote  #90 

Well now Biz, we sure are going to have a snow blizzard. I agree with you on this one. If I wanted to be a beautician, I would have to go to school. OK if Pa, by the way the first state in the United States, wants to require schooling for beginning groomers, I don't see a problem. My problem is this license bill now in the Pennsylvania assembly,  has so many truly harmful things written in it for us established groomers, seriously, none of us can afford this bill as written, you have clout, help us change it, so we can survive. Thanks

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