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topknot3

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I read an article in Pet Product News about a new law passed  in PA that no one EXCEPT a licensed vet can dock tails and removed dewclaws.  It said that if someone is caught with a docked dog, especially a young pup that would be born since the law was passed, (NOT OLDER DOGS already done) they can ask to see proof that it was performed by a licensed vet.  Now who thought up that dumb law?  I have docked my own AND had it done by a vet.  I think I did a much better job than the vet.


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cattitude

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Reply with quote  #2 
Wow that is stupid!



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epilady

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Its not a ban on home docking but ear cropping. Docking (and dew claws) has to be done by five days old! I know that one of the countrys best ear croppers lives and works in Pa and she has moved her cropping to out of state.
Marge has always done my puppys and I won't ever have a vet do them again after a very bad experience with my own vet. Marge was in Florida on the curcuit and my vet did a litter for me. It was awful! He cut with a scalpel , pulled the skin back, cut the bone with little manicure scissors and put a stitch in. My puppies cried during the whole process and I was horrified! AND one got infected! Never again! I will do it myself next time she is unavailable! Vets suck at docking tails, they never get the length right either. They also do awful ears!
I'm sure that bill was intended to stop all the bad pit bull guys from chopping ears off, but it swept up everyone in a broad net, too bad. 
TwitTheCat

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Reply with quote  #4 

It appears that it addresses tail docking and dew claw removal on dogs over 5 days old. The average docking is done as 2 to 3 days of age, so it shouldn't affect people like you, Epi.

epilady

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Reply with quote  #5 
It would not affect me anyway as I'm in Delaware. It just seems that Pa is really addressing the puppy mill problem in no uncertain terms (which is a good thing) and people who are real dog professionals are getting caught up in some of the crazier rules they are trying to bring about. Like dog exercise areas needing to be cement so they can be cleaned properly. I know an attorney who breeds Great Danes and turns them out in a five acre fenced yard for exercise, how would he ever pave that? There are just too many variables to make one size fits all laws. If anyone in Pa now buys a puppy to resell they become a broker automatically, that puts that person in the catagory of puppy miller! Some professionals just don't want to be included in that.
If the new law is basically unenforceable , why bother at all?
TwitTheCat

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<<If the new law is basically unenforceable , why bother at all?>>

Agreed! It's like the mandatory spay/neuter laws they want to pass in California. They miss their intended mark by miles, as the dogs that they are meant for that should be spayed/neutered are not licensed or up on vaccines. They live in the back yards & streets and the law never knows about them unless someone turns them in. Then the owners just get a "fix it" ticket with no fine if they comply.  By then these dogs have reproduced and filled the shelters with unwanted puppies. They usually end up there themselves, as the owners may not want a "desexed" animal or be able to afford the surgery.

Also under the mandatory spay/neuter laws, licensed breeders will be able to keep intact animals. Who are the "licensed" breeders???? Puppy mills, of course!!! I don't think of a single reputable hobby/show person who has enough intact animals to require a license to partake in the business of breeding, because they are NOT in the business of breeding. They may require a local commercial kennel license to keep numerous animals, but rescues would need the same.

We all need to pay attention to what goes on in other states because these laws become malignant, spreading from state to state.
Tina

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Reply with quote  #7 
That's how the docking/dew ban started over here in the UK, with only Vets being allowed to do it.  I have to say, we all thought it was uninforcable, but now completely banned, with the few exceptions of working gundogs.  But you have to proove that they are going to be a worker.  Dogs docked after the ban are of course not able to show.  Takes some getting used to initially, but now it is just normal.  I have spaniels and rotties, and although the spaniels still have a 3/4 dock as we work them, the rotties have tails, and to be honest, it seems really strange to see one without a tail, and they look unbalanced now.  But before the ban I thought a rottie WITH a tail looked stupid.
Ear cropping has always been illegal over here
I do think that both practices will eventually be banned in US too
Sambone

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Reply with quote  #8 

I don't understand it...dogs that are routinely docked and cropped by AKC standards are done so for reason relating to their breed, not just "because". I am personal friends with a veterinarian that doesn't "get" the fall on a dog like a Sealy or a Wheaten, she thinks they should just be cut off! ugh! (I love her dearly, but I don't tell her how to do a spay, so she keeps her grooming conversation to "I just don't get it!" LOL)  I really think PA is getting downright idiotic with some of their "laws". I've seen a lady get her rescue kennel licence revoked and the dogs confiscated (sp?) because her HOUSE was cluttered and dirty. NOT her kennel, her HOUSE. The kennel was fine, she took better care of that kennel then her home (obviously) but what does her house have to do with her kennel? What right did they have to do that?  Don't get me startted on the in "humane" enforcers up here.  Uneducated scavengers, always looking to be a "hero" watching too much animal planet to make themselves look/feel good. I better stop ranting I guess. It get's me all burned up

topknot3

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Reply with quote  #9 

starting Jan 1st, PA is changing laws for puppy mills....saying they have to keep the dogs off of wire mesh floors and they have to be able to go inside/outside AND they have to increase the amount of cage space.  OH as if a double wide bunny hutch is all that more space.  And this only applies to places that sell more than 60 puppies in a year....which is only about 1/4 of the kennels in the entire state.  What about the shih-poo, puggle breeders that sell 45-59 dogs a year?  Oh it doesn't apply to them!!!

PS:  I have people tell me every single day that Malcom can't see....he has a long fall

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Sambone

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Reply with quote  #10 
It just burns me up!  So, instead of keeping my backyard breeding program in a closet in a dark barn, I now have to take up a whole STALL?!? Oh my stars what shall I do, I will not have the room to breed my 100 mixe...er..DESIGNER puppies (which I do not health test by the way, natural selection and such always works out, eh?) I have to cut my "program" back to 60 or less....waitaminute,...then I don't have to COMPLY!  So I will go with my most populars: Cavashons, puggles, cockapoos, huskapoos, schnoodles ...you know, the popular flavor of the weeks dogs......all with champion lines and ACA papers of course...
Sorry for that sarcastic rant, but where the heck do these law makers get their educations from? Kmart?  They create all these laws, and now they are also expecting boarding kennels to enforce them! WTH? Why should a boarding kennel be forced to "uphold pa dog law"?  If they want to enforce it, by golly, they need to hire their OWN enforcers. They stretch their people too thin: check out this map: http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_24476_10297_0_43/AgWebsite/Files/Publications/Warden%20Regional%20Map%20PDF.pdf
This tells you PA dog wardens by county. notice how many have to handle multiple counties. How is it fair to expect them to do a good thourogh job when they are supposed to do so much? How is it fair to ask the owner of a business to do that job for them? They did not ask to be deputy wardens, they are trying to run a business!  Most puppy mills are not cought on "mill laws", they are caught by not obeying standard sanitation laws for kennels, and for noise violations. Case in point, right down the road from me: http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/7227/PA/US/
Sanitary and kennel violations
This is just to show the entire map of cruelty case in PA, many of which are mills:
http://www.pet-abuse.com/pages/cruelty_database/local_maps.php?state=PA
Sorry for the long rant and mis-spells, I just would like these points of reference to be available
Sambone

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Reply with quote  #11 
...and on another note, upon further reading of the case I used as an example, I wonder if this was a serious miss on the law enforcement's part. Upon further reading:
 
 In an interview after the charges were filed, Wolf denied mistreating the dogs, insisting he fed them well with meat and cottage cheese. "I have four different vets," he said.

"I'd get up in the morning and go to work on my dogs. I'm lost right now. I'm devastated," he said in March at his fenced-off kennel compound. "All my years of devotion and love. It's horrible. It makes me sad at this point in my life I have to be in this position" 

This guy used to be the Mike of Mike-Mar kennels, and he had shown and won with a pekenise I believe the article stated, in the 80's.
Now, I know one of the vets this guy used, I groomed there. She and her husband have a tendencey to give a "clean bill of health" to anyone that has the green bills to pay her a lot to see a lot of dogs.  Could this have been an over looked hoarding issue?
Sambone

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Reply with quote  #12 

...and now I see none of this really has to do with the topic at hand, which is the docking and cropping! LOL SORRY!

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