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FurandAway2

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Has anyone herd those radio commercials for " The National Association of Realtors"?
 
I think that is what we need "The National Association of Pet Groomers"!
 
Several States have offered some sort of legislation for the Pet Grooming industry.  I live in Pa, and unfortunately ours started after a legislators pet died of heat stroke after being groomed.

Within this Association we can set the Rules of the Game, I think Groomers and the Public are concerned about two things Safety and Competence.  If the majority of our industry approved this program, then the Public and Legislators will follow.
 
Thoughts?
 
Thanks Eric

topknot3

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Eric? and Sharon?  from Fur & away Mobile?  Hi, its Kim that had the groomer party!...I still am undecided about licensing.  An association for groomers sounds like the same thing.  But just paying dues to BELONG to an association is not good enough.  Don't you think the national certifications are good enough?







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jonna

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I think it is terrible that bad groomers out there are making it rough for those of us that are caring professionals. I worry about the liscencing only because I have not learned this profession at a grooming school. I am very professional and always seek to improve my skills. Also I genuinely care for the pets in my charge, I always go above and beyond.

Roccald

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FurandAway2
Has anyone herd those radio commercials for " The National Association of Realtors"?
 
I think that is what we need "The National Association of Pet Groomers"!.................


That Associations advertising only works because Realtors are required to be licensed. So until groomers are licensed no similar association or current association ads would mean much. You would be surprised how many clients we get because of the "certified groomers" up the road. Groomers that because they are "certified master groomers" refuse to trim a long coated dogs hair short. For them shaving a dog short per the customers request is a professional sin. 

The current groomer associations have really no rules, control or say about members or even those they certify once certified. Only requirement is annual membership dues and yearly certification renewal fees. 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FurandAway2

Within this Association we can set the Rules of the Game, I think Groomers and the Public are concerned about two things Safety and Competence. If the majority of our industry approved this program, then the Public and Legislators will follow.
 
Thoughts?
 
Thanks Eric

If an association could be established, one with rules and a program that would be concerned with safety and competence, I doubt that... "the majority of our industry"... would or could come together, to agree on what the safety program and competency rules should be. Membership will be affected by the disagreements. Look at NDGAA the oldest pet grooming association membership considering it has been around since 1969is small. Certification by current associations is laughed at if not ridiculed by many groomers as not being relevant to pet grooming.

The discussion on this board about What makes a judge a judge?
The posts show judging is more about dog profile & show ring grooming.
Rules for contest and certification has little to do with real life pet grooming in a shop. And is also more about the right dog profile that will win the judges approval, not really about a pet groomer demonstrating pet grooming shop skills let alone safety and competency.

I prefer education over regulation but since anyone can start out in this business with no training or education and call them self a professional groomer, I am afraid the need for licensing will grow.    

My opinion on licensing of groomers keeps changing, but this is an election year, so we will see what happens in Nov.

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FurandAway2

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Reply with quote  #5 
Eric? and Sharon?  from Fur & away Mobile?  Hi, its Kim that had the groomer party!...I still am undecided about licensing.  An association for groomers sounds like the same thing.  But just paying dues to BELONG to an association is not good enough.  Don't you think the national certifications are good enough?


Yep, that us!  Yes, the gathering was great need to have more of them, always a good time.  As you said "you are still undecide about licensing" and that is why I think this might have a better chance of working for our industry.  What is a license?  It's a piece of paper that you pay for to prove you have achieved a level of competence.  Fellow members of the Association would determine a minimum level of competence and safety in a grooming shop. 

Nobody wants to be told how to run their shop or handle their clients and pets.  But we keep hearing these horror stories about pets getting hurt or killed in grooming related accidents.  If we don't step up and fix it, some lawmaker will, and then we will be forced to comply.  I would much rather have my fellow members determine my fiat after a mistake than a heartless lawmaker just try to make a buck or win an election.
FurandAway2

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Reply with quote  #6 
Jonna,
 
  How can you differentiate yourself those "bad groomers" and how will the public know how to find a good groomer ( you ) without some sort of guide?  The Associations registry of Groomers ( on the web ) would let them know where to find members, and an explanation of just what they can expect will tell them why they want a member to groom their pet.  Don't fear licensing because you do not have a in class eduction every proposal I have heard of offers credit for on the job time as a qualifier to receive a license.
 
  This is one of the stumbling blocks that must be removed before we can join together.  There are three different groups "the home or self-taught group", the "on the job or shop educated group" and the "in class or school educated group".  We must remember we all chose this field because we love animals and wanted to make them look and feel better.
 
Thanks 
Eric  
Epona

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Reply with quote  #7 
Ive posted several times on other lines about licensing. I must agree it would be a wonderful thing to have behind us. However it is not an easy thing. The basics are fairly simple, knowing breeds, coat types, skin issues and medical issues etc etc.. but then it comes to a really hard part. As a professional PET groomer... I am not a competition groomer, I am not a show groomer and I am not one to tell a client OK Ill do what you ask if I know well and good the work involved will be stressful or possibly injure a pet.

I have worked with many breeders over the years to learn more about breeds. I have found it very good base ground for me but I also know from personal experience, a few (actually many breeders) feel breed standard is the only way a pet should look. If the owner isnt willing to do the work then we must and charge for it. WELL.... does any of us really have the right to tell an owner... no your shih tzu must be kept long? with a top knot? etc???

As a pet groomer, I have found over the years that it is very helpful to learn how to read people. The woman who walks in with a very soft coated schnauzer... you can see she is wearing 'work' clothing, and the kids are out in the car waiting... OK most likely she is not able to make time to work much with the dog. HMMMM Maybe that is why it is all matted?? so to offer a shorter style, easier for her to deal with.. works.

Licensing MUST be set in writing with basic ground rules and knowledge yes... but we cannot afford to have only show people in the lime lite doing it. There are so many different factors involved due to different breeds, different lifestyles of owners, different coat and hair types.... sheesh... just glad Im a simple groomer here... LOL. All I know is this.. online grooming certificates are still out there, bad groomers are still out there, and pet are still getting hurt. Im sorry to say it may be a while before we see any real progress in this area... but I still feel it could help.


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PawPrints

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Reply with quote  #8 

I think licensing or even an association when coupled with safe handling education could help with some of the terrible incidents that sometimes occur, but I don't think it will ever eliminate them.  Take the medical field for instance, doctors are licensed and trusted in the care of people, but the number of people who die by fault of their doctor is a lot higher than you would think.  I honestly can't remember the number, but it was tens of thousands at least A YEAR.  People are human and there are always going to be mishaps.  Tragic, but true.  You are also always going to have some people who really don't care like a lot of us, they'll take their class, pass their test, get their certification or license and do what they please anyway.  I don't think it will make a dent in the numbers, but I do think there are some who would benefit and take to heart the safety portion and every little bit is better than nothing.

FurandAway2

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Reply with quote  #9 
Thank you, for your thoughts and opinions about this subject.

I would have to agree that we all groom differently, but we all want the same thing.  A clean, healthy and happy PET.  None of my customers are willing to take the time or pay the money to make Fluffy look like the winner at West Minster.   Regardless of how or where we where trained, we all want our industry to be safe.   Too that end someone ( us or them ) is going to make standardized rules for Safety and Competence. 

So if it is going to be us, it will have to be a grass roots effort.  Where we all agree on minimal standards.  That means we will have to compromise, on some of our own feelings. 

My thought is, it is better if we ( us ) do this before someone else ( them ) force us too. . .
Silas

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Reply with quote  #10 
Well, I think that if they ever do it... They should make different licenses, and make them upgradeable. Starting with basic, I also think there should be a separate Cat grooming license. They are 2 different things and they are so different as far as attitude, handling and safety.
topknot3

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Reply with quote  #11 
A long time ago, auto mechanics were just mechanics.  Then in the 80's, there came these new things called ASE certifications.  If you wanted to just be a regular mechanic, fine.  But if you wanted to make more money and attract a more intelligent clientele....ones who knew about computers, electronics, pollution emmission, etc, it was wise to take you ASE tests and wear the patch on your uniform and have the certificate hanging near your tool box.  My husband was a great mechanic and he took every single test and passed and he was called a MASTER auto tech.  He had to renew every 2 years I believe it was.  If you don't constantly keep updated on the newer models of cars, newer tools that match each thing (such as brakes on an Audi...that tool won't fix the brakes on a Benz)

Similar with grooming....if you don't get some new stripping knives, better dryer systems, improved shampoos, restraint devices, you may be left out in the cold.  Good groomers have nothing to fear when it comes to taking a test & getting licensed.  Its just that I don't see how it could be really FAIR.

Working on a CAR is so differnt that a live, moving, breathing, struggling animal.   Every Toyota is the same as long as its the same model....but no 2 schnauzers are the same....no 2 maltese are the same.  (They SHOULD be according to the AKC guidebook, but we know they aren't.)

Every groomer should be able to answer questions regarding temperatures in drying, signs of distress, clipper and scissor cleanliness....but its all the other variables that make licensing something that some of us fear....me for one.  I think I'm a good groomer but what if I don't pass some test?

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FurandAway2

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Reply with quote  #12 

Topknot3,

Why do you think you would have to pass a test?

What if the minimum standard was 3 years in a grooming shop.

Now I know every is going to jump in here and say "3 years doesn't mean you know how to groom safely, or have CPR training", and that is why people are for continuing eduction credits.

My thought is 3 - one hour courses, taken anytime over a 3 year period.  This would keep cost down and allow flexibility.  Maybe you don't go too Groom Expo every year and that's fine.  But I do think the Trade Show/Seminar Circuit is the best place for continuing ed. 

I love Silas's idea of different levels, but I would prefer years as a member to groom level 2-3-4 and so on.  I don't want to get back into the pet groom vs. master show groom battle.  We are all pet groomers.  If we can keep it simple and allow clients and lawmakers to see a united front, we will all be better off.

topknot3

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Eric, I think you have a ton of good ideas.  Did you know that catwoman realized a NEED for cat groomers to become certified and she is now the president of the NCGIA....nat'l ct groomers assoc of america???  We recently sent away for the study packets, videos, etc so Lindsay can certify soon.   It is SO MUCH better and well thought out than the packet of stuff from the NDGA.  Although cat had something to compare hers to....her's is so much more comprehensive.  Why don't you put your ideas into action?  Seriously, look at Cats, look at the levels of certification for mechanics, look at the current way dog groomers are certified or licensed or NOT!  See what other ideas you can come up with.  PS....I believe we bumped into eachother at Groom Expo last year, right?


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suntandtoz

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Reply with quote  #14 
i am a national certified master groomer with national dog groomers association. i have been certified for about 10 years long before it was fashionable. i went to a seminaar because i was "shop trained" and had taken that to owning my own shop and i felt there had to be more that i needed to learn. yes you need to be tested if only for your own bragging rights. on the other hand if your state does adopt a program, they have to have a testing  panel. one that is already in place  with years of established testing by top professionals in the field will be recommended to do the states testing. the big question is...  do we need it? you can see in the contracting business that regulation only sets forth the standard for materials and application.. quailty is at the hand of the craftsman. so do we all get to pay for an inspector to stand at the door and check our work as it leaves?  i think not i already pay for a yearly inspection that has not been done that i paid for in oct 07 i'm still waiting.. gov will and does screw up and they get paid for it.
we have so many self proclaimed groups that seem to be politically oriented.  we can not afford to allow too many to start setting the ground rules before the ground breaking. if we self regulate and take responsiblity for our own  profession they won't be trying to do it for us. organization within the field is the only way. locally... i hear tongues wagging.. no biting please.. you have to work together or they will destroy you all one by one only the meek and very breave will survive. meek becasue they will accept whatever they tell them even if it is wrong or makes thier life miserable. nationally  we have that..  use it they are there to help with these issues and guide the profession to stay ahead of these ankle biters.
locally try this issue
http://www.abc-7.com/articles/readnews.asp?articleid=17566&z=2

we have yet to feel the effects of this recent news cast in our area but i can tell you in only a few days my phone has rang off the hook. i am the only NCMG in this county.  i always heard "why should i be certified?" from those that couldn't pass the test. this is why.. i never really boasted the fact unless i had a client trying to get the upper hand and i had to get technical and it worked so well when i was questioned on why i charge so much or raised my prices... get certified by some organization if not the national dog groomers before they force you to test with 300 other groomers with dogs on tables. it's coming we can't stop it! we can only control it or slow it down.

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Silas

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Reply with quote  #15 
That is crazy. Who among us has not cut a toenail? If owners are going to the extreme like that, the first thing many of us groomers will do is start referring anything that isn't a statue on the table to the veterinarian because of the liability of cutting .... a toe nail. Good Lord, Vets cut toenails too short.
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